CITY OF PEORIA, ARIZONA
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING
August 1, 2007 MINUTES
6:00 PM

A Regular Meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission of the City of Peoria, 
Arizona, was convened at 8401 W. Monroe Street in open session at 6:03 p.m. in the 
Peoria City Council Chamber.

MEMBERS PRESENT:  Mark Hackbarth, Jodey Elsner, Ken Feldman, William 
Schindler, and Gary Nelson.

MEMBERS ABSENT: Priscilla Cook, Harold McKisson

Others Present:  Chad Daines, Planning Manager, Glen Van Nimwegen, Community 
Development Director, Karen Flores, Planner, Dawn Prince, Planning Assistant

Audience: 3

COMMENTS ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS: Vice Chair Hackbarth calls roll and inquires 
about the reasons for the absences of the other members. Karen Flores of staff 
responds that the absent members requested to be excused. 

Motion by Commissioner Nelson, second by Commissioner Feldman to accept the 
absences and excuse those Commissioners not present.

Comments from the floor: None

REGULAR AGENDA

NEW BUSINESS:

1.	Approval of Minutes, Corrected version from October 11, 2006

Motion by Commissioner Schindler, second by Commissioner Nelson to approve the 
Minutes, with the corrections, and absences for Commissioners Gary Nelson and 
William Schindler, for October 11, 2006. Motion carried

Approval of Minutes, February 21, 2007

Motion by Commissioner Nelson, second by Commissioner Schindler to approve the 
minutes for February 21, 2007. Motion carried.

2.	Presentation of Resolution to Establish Peoria Old Town Heritage District
and to be beneficiary of special initiatives 

Staff Member Karen Flores presents.

First, she describes the purpose of the meeting which is to share the directives of 
the Council to staff regarding the Revitalization of the Downtown Area. 

Staff Member Flores goes on to explain that the needs of the downtown area have 
been the focus of several activities, projects and plans such as the streetscape 
project, but most importantly, the Performing Arts Center. These measures have 
served as support for revitalizing the downtown area.

Ms. Flores continues, explaining that staff had drafted a resolution (a copy of it
was in the packets sent to the Commission) that would formalize Council’s approval
for the activities that will support the revitalization and historic preservation 
efforts in the downtown. The Resolution would also make downtown Peoria, officially, 
the Peoria Old town Heritage District.

Lastly, Staff member Flores explained types of things would go along with this new 
district designation. Among these things being the façade grant program, Special 
signage, and Education programs for the enhancement of public historic awareness. 

Also, in support of the changes in this area, the Central Peoria Revitalization Plan 
would be updated.

Staff completes the presentation inviting discussion and comment from the 
Commission.

REPORT FROM THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION

Commissioner Elsner questioned staff regarding the justification for the boundary 
imposed on the Heritage District.

Ms. Flores commented that the boundary represents the area where the Historic 
Resources Survey took place and is considered the center of the downtown area. 
Furthermore staff has determined the area to be small enough to make the 
concentration of activity more focused and effective.

Commissioner Hackbarth asked how this is different from a landmark designation.

Ms Flores responded that the Designation would be a local Peoria one rather than a 
National one. She also briefly explained the effect Prop 207 has had on the City. Ms. 
Flores reiterated, as explained in the last meeting, Prop 207 has made the City more 
susceptible to law suits when the City takes actions that may affect property values. 
Additionally, resident support for a nationally recognized Historic District would 
have to be 100% for that to be possible. 

Commissioner Elsner asked when the last time the residents were queried on whether 
they wanted a district.

Ms. Flores responded that the query was done prior to her becoming the Liaison for the 
Commission.

Chad Daines responded that a formal survey wasn’t done. He included that in October 
there had been discussion with the commission about the characteristics of the 
structures that make up the downtown and whether they would be sufficient to form a 
Historic District. Subsequently, in November, Prop 207 was passed and it essentially 
changed the way the City approaches creating the Historic District. The City’s ordinance 
states that 51% of the residents in would need to agree. The City Attorney’s who 
reviewed Prop 207 and the League of Cities and Towns advised that in establishing a 
Historic District a 100% agreement by Property owners may be necessary. The City 
therefore did not go out and survey. It was the assumption that there would be at least 
some opposition just based on conversations that had been ongoing with residents of 
the area. Consequently, the first lawsuit that was filed in Arizona was out of Flagstaff 
and was over the establishment of a Historic District. This case has yet to be 
adjudicated and thus, the impact of this case has yet to be determined. The City’s ability 
to create a formal district is framed by this ongoing case. This creation of the Heritage 
district is the next closest thing in showing the city’s commitment to celebrating the 
Historic character of the downtown area through education, special signage, and 
through the façade grant program but without formally creating a Historic District. 

Commissioner Elsner asked if this was on the lines of a Planning Conservation District 
or is it not that rigid. 

Mr. Daines replied that it is not that rigid. These measures would constitute an informal 
planning area that has been established to be a special Heritage District.
Also, the area that would be concentrated on is the area that constitutes the original plat 
of Peoria. 

Commissioner Hackbarth questioned staff as to what the façade grant program consists 
of.

Mr. Daines explained that the façade grant portion was in the process of being formed. 
He continued saying that Planning has been working with the Economic Development 
department regarding the details of the grant program. The program would allow for 
matching grants for businesses or Mixed Use developments in a defined corridor that 
has not yet been fully defined. It would apply to existing facades but would not apply to 
new developments, or strictly to residential. Staff thinks a good program might start with 
commercial and mixed use projects and allow for a business owner to apply to the city 
for an $8 -$10,000 grant. The City’s current Economic Development Coordinator 
previously worked with a program in Scottsdale and this program is modeled after that 
one. According to him, each business would use about $8-$10,000 to update their 
facades in accordance with the City’s guidelines for this historic area. The details of that 
program will be brought forward about the same time as the resolution is brought to 
Council.  The final details are still being worked out.

Commissioner Nelson asked Ms. Flores what role the Commission will play if it 
becomes more of an advisory Board as a result of these changes.

Ms. Flores responded that generally when the City forms Boards, an example being the 
Planning and Zoning Commission, they are for advisory purposes. These Boards can 
make recommendations to Council for action on specific cases that are brought before 
them. The Historic Preservation Commission will become similar to this, and be able to 
make recommendations for approval and be kind of a technical advisory body for staff.

Commissioner Hackbarth asked if this would affect single structures.

Ms Flores commented that single structures would still be able to move forward with 
being designated as a Historic home or building. This action wouldn’t impede that.   

Commissioner Hackbarth inquired about whether this area would be eligible for the 
National Register in the future or is this a separate program?

Ms Flores responded that this program is a separate program there is no register. The 
purpose of this program is to focus on a specific area to encourage historic character 
and denote the area as the Historic Center of Peoria. This is strictly a local designation 
it doesn’t have anything to do with the National or State register.

Commissioner Feldman asked what’s next beyond this. If the recommendation that the 
Heritage district is made, a façade program is going to be put in place, are there any 
design guidelines in place? What will encourage people who live in the area or own 
property in the area to develop or re-create the Historic Area?
He expressed that he did not know of any guidelines that exist that would guide a 
builder to build this way.

Mr. Daines explained that the City has several documents that currently guide that. One 
is the Central Peoria Revitalization Plan and it does have some design elements 
incorporated in it. The design aspect is one of the elements of the Central Peoria 
Revitalization Update the City will be looking at. The City also has worked with a group 
of ASU graduate students from an Architectural History Class who prepared and 
completed a façade study that looked at the facades along Washington and 83rd 
avenues and determined what their historical characters were at their origins. From this, 
it is known the way the buildings were prior to some of the facades being changed or 
modified over the years. In conjunction with this façade program, the staff is putting 
together a set of defined guidelines that will be adapted in to the Design Review 
Ordinance in tandem with the façade program so that when a business owner decides 
participate and get some grant money to update their façade, there will be some clear 
guidance to guide that façade development.

Commissioner Feldman clarified his understanding of what staff would be doing.
He asked would staff be preparing design guidelines based on the revitalization plan 
from 1999, including the ASU study and preparing guidelines for Commercial and 
Residential for this area.       

Mr. Daines responded that the guidelines would be for commercial mainly because 
commercial and mixed use would be the main program recipients from the grant 
program. Elements will be taken from the current revitalization program but there are 
some broad brush design guidelines in there. Elements will be taken from the façade 
study and add to that based on other Cities that have similar Historical Town areas 
where they have tried to create a replicate as to augment what is there and not turn 
away from it. Staff is right in the process of putting together these guidelines. The 
intention is to bring these forward at the same time as the façade grant program so that 
the guidelines in the program run in tandem. 

Commissioner asked if there was anything for residential. He pointed out that based on 
the map area shown, 80-90% of the area is residential. 

Mr. Daines responded that the map that is before the Commission is the area that would 
be declared the Heritage District. Part of that area would be the recipient of the façade 
grant program and that would be predominantly the area along 83rd and Washington 
and probably extending along Grand Avenue. He reiterated that the program is only for 
commercial of mixed use development. There already are some design guidelines in the 
Revitalization plan relative to residential. The City’s design review ordinance is being 
updated as well as the Central Peoria Revitalization Plan. Out of that effort, staff is 
expecting that additional standards for residential may be incorporated. The commercial 
and mixed use guidelines will be in place, that’s why staff is moving ahead with that 
portion.

Commissioner Feldman asked if the bond money is City money. 

Mr. Daines responded that  it would be City funded.

Commissioner Nelson asked about the participation level for the program in Scottsdale 
and Glendale. More towards the Private?

Mr. Daines responded that to his recollection, the problem was not the money but 
getting people interested, and in getting them to understand what value that would have 
for their business. It didn’t sound like a program where people just lined up and the City 
went through the money really fast. There seemed to be a lot of neighborhood work that 
went into it and staff will be doing this same type of neighborhood work with this façade 
program. Staff will go out and make business owners aware that it’s there and to 
encourage them as well as help them through the process especially because many of 
them are small businesses and they may not be familiar with all the steps involved in 
doing this type of construction. 

Commissioner Feldman asked whether the City has the money now or is this future 
money.

Mr. Daines replied that staff is still working on the actual funding mechanism. There are 
several options that are being explored.

Commissioner Feldman inquired whether this would not be happening this fiscal Year.

Mr. Daines responded that there is an option that is being explored that may be funded 
in this fiscal year.

Commissioner Hackbarth asked staff to describe the process someone would go 
through. 

Mr. Daines responded that first step would be defining the concept plan and the 
narrative to understand the intent of the business owner, and what the money would be 
for. Documents have been drafted to be completed by the applicant where the applicant 
would be, in essence, agreeing to complete the improvements that were agreed to and 
defines a timeframe for maintaining those improvements. ( i.e. 10 years or more) This is 
to protect against business owners  changing the façade after a short time like 2 years 
after the improvements were made. The process would be an administrative one and 
the filing would be through the Economic Development group. Staff is also working with 
Materials Management to establish a group of architects that are pre qualified to work 
on this program and familiar with the program and so that the business owners have a 
good resource to choose from.
Business owners would have to submit for plan review and approval, obtain a permit 
and then complete the construction. Following construction completion would be an 
inspection to insure that all the design guidelines were met. The business owner would 
then produce the receipts for the work and be reimbursed.

Commissioner Nelson asked whether contractors will be on the list that will be available 
to the business owners.

Mr. Daines replied that the plan is still in progress, that hasn’t been decided on yet. The 
document is still in draft form. Once some of the final determinations are made staff can 
bring the program back in front of the Commission for review. The presentation to the 
Commission can include the mechanics of the program including flow charts that will 
direct business owners in the steps they would take to take advantage of this program. 

Commissioner Elsner commented that she just sat on the most recent phase of the City 
of Phoenix Grants Panel and there were about 15 people on that Panel. $200,000 was 
being given out. The panel members were given days to review all the applications that 
came with numerous photographs. They met as a group for about 4 or 5 hours selecting 
who should get the money based on their work.
There were investors who had applied as well as homeowners because it’s about the 
buildings.

Commissioner Hackbarth asked how the Commission would be involved in this.

Mr. Daines responded that the program information would be brought back to the 
Commission for their review and information. There has been some discussion over 
who would review each individual façade and who would review the grant application. 
As a staff, it was determined that a large committee was not what was desired. 
Especially because of the amount of money this program would be funded with. There 
is also a similar program, called the Neighborhood Grant Program that works really well 
and it’s administrated with a small group of people, within some guidelines. Staff didn’t 
want to create a large bureaucracy for someone who is trying to enhance the Old town 
area. These decisions were based greatly upon recommendations from Scott Cooper 
from the Economic Development group. In his experience with the program in 
Scottsdale, business owners don’t tend to work on a fiscal calendar so one annual time 
when all the applications needed to be received wouldn’t allow the flexibility that staff 
was trying to create with this program. Once the program is finalized it will be brought 
back before the Commission and the Commission can discuss it further then.

Commissioner Hackbarth asked if there would be opportunities for public involvement 
for them to say Hey I like this, I don’t want this.

Mr. Daines responded that the public would be involved at the Design Review Advisory 
Board Meeting and also the City Council Meetings, as well as at the meetings with this 
Commission. The Public could review the guidelines at any of these points to give input 
into this process.

Vice Chair Hackbarth requested any other comments from the Commission.

No response from the Commission.

COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC  

Kathy Montoya Moore, a resident, stepped forward and gave comment.

She commented that she was most concerned about the shuffling of Historic Buildings. 
She added that if the Woman’s Club Building is moved, the Historic value would be lost. 

Mr. Daines commented that the City made a decision several years ago that because of 
the Performing Arts Center, and because of the goal to expand Osuna Park, and the 
Revitalization that combination would have, that there was a need to move the 
Woman’s Club. The City also thought it was important to maintain the integrity of that 
structure and actually looked to relocate that down by the Community Center. This 
would create a consolidated historic block on the Community Center site which houses, 
on the front end, on 83rd Avenue, the Central School buildings. It was really an effort to 
continue to maintain the Woman’s Club as an important building in Peoria’s history. 
Council made the decision to relocate that building to help the Osuna Park become a 
little bit more functional than what it is today. 

Ms. Montoya Moore responded that moving the building is not worth it for the building to 
just become a Day Care Center. Moving it would just make it the equivalent of just 
another wooden structure because the building’s historical significance would be lost if it 
is moved. She stated that the cost of moving the building at $600,000 to 1 million dollars 
is too much to spend. 

Mr. Daines responded that the goal is that once the building is relocated, it will be 
brought up to code so that it can continue to be used as it currently is, to house the 
Woman’s club and the AM/PM program that is also operated there. The goal is not for it 
to be used for one particular purpose. It’s going to continue on to be an important 
building. He re-iterated that the decision was made several years ago because of the 
need to expand Osuna Park. The Council has not turned their backs on the Historical 
significance. The goal was to move that building and make sure it has a nice new home 
and it still maintains an important part in the Old town area. 

Ms. Montoya Moore explained that she opposes it 100% and that there is a group that is 
behind her. She said she understands that maybe nothing can be done to stop this but 
she doesn’t believe that anyone has taken into consideration that people who have lived 
there a long time may feel differently than the City about these changes. She stated that 
she didn’t know about what was going on until a friend told her. The money that is going 
to be spent is not being spent wisely. 

Mr. Daines responded that the movement of the Woman’s Club was one element of the 
Central Peoria Revitalization Plan that was adopted in 1999. That Planning effort 
included a significant amount of citizen participation with all the community and a lot of 
different design plans. Ultimately one of the recommended items was that there was a 
need to expand Osuna Park and possibly relocate the jail and the Woman’s Club. That 
was ultimately adopted by Council and through the Capital Program was implemented. 
It wasn’t a plan that was done in a vacuum; it was done with a significant amount of 
citizen participation. Mr. Daines said he was personally involved in many of those 
meetings and there were many people included. The plan was reviewed by advisory 
boards and they made recommendations to council. Again Mr. Daines stated that there 
was a lot of public involvement in that plan. 

Ms. Flores responded stating that bringing a group of people together brings many 
ideas together where many options can be explored. Ultimately the best plan for what is 
needed must be chosen and that’s where this decision came from. In order to revitalize 
the downtown and make it this meaningful place that everyone involved wants it to be, 
the Woman’s Club location was one piece that couldn’t be kept the same.

Ms. Montoya Moore stated that it doesn’t make sense in her view. She continued on to 
say that she grew up in Peoria and that the place where the Chambers is located used 
to be a cotton field. She expressed continued concern about the plans for the area not 
being complete.

Mr. Daines stated again that there was significant citizen involvement in the creation of 
the Central Peoria Plan. May different design plans were gone through by large groups 
of business owners as well as residents. The Plan was also presented before several 
Commissions including this one, and before several public hearings before it was 
adopted by Council. The things that have gone on in the last few years are a direct 
result of that process. He went on to give examples of the changes that have occurred 
and are in the process. He also stated that there is definitely a need to update that plan. 
Mr. Daines explained that there are several different development oriented opportunities 
that are being explored to keep the downtown area a vital area of the community. One 
key factor in revisiting the plan from 1999 is that many of the recommendations made 
then have either been implemented or are in the process of being implemented. 
Because of this it makes sense to look forward over the next ten years to a new set of 
implementations the City can make to continue to make the downtown an important 
area of the community, and to continue the revitalization of this area.

Ms. Montoya Moore stated that 10 years may be too long to wait because what used to 
be historic Old town Peoria will be shuffled into a little square. She expressed concern 
about losing the areas she grew up in and reiterated that moving the Woman’s club 
doesn’t make sense to her no matter what Plan’s the City has. She is concerned she 
will not recognize the area she grew up in because everything would have been moved 
or changed in ten years.

Kenneth Carroll, a resident, steps forward to speak.

Mr. Carroll expressed two concerns. First, that the Commission is in effect feeling 
pressured to go along with any recommendations or plans presented to them by staff 
just because staff says there were a significant number of citizens involved in the plan. 
And two, moving the building just because it’s more convenient for the Performing Arts 
Center is not acceptable to him. He stated that the Commission is supposed to preserve 
the district and not just go along with things that are presented to them.

Commissioner Elsner suggested that since they were formed in 2002, after this plan 
was installed, she would like to see a staff report from planning on the National Register 
eligibility of the Woman’s Club and detailed plans because the commission hasn’t been 
told where the Woman’s Club will sit. The Commission also hasn’t been told how much 
that move is going to cost and where the funding is actually coming from. She 
requested to have that information by the next Commission meeting. 

Glen Van Nimwegen responded that could certainly comply with that request.
He expressed his understanding that the Commission may be unsure of what exactly is 
being presented to them. He continued, explaining that staff knows that this part of the 
city is a special one. There are limitations on what the city can do because of Prop 207. 
What is requested of the Council is for this area to be recognized as an important area 
that the City needs to retain. He emphasized that hopefully in the future the City will 
have enough materials to create a Historic District. He continued, stating the if nothing 
is done, the concerns of the residents may come true. This is a step towards preserving 
that area and identifying for the City, that this area is special and it’s appropriate to put it 
in place. As far as the move of the Woman’s facility, that decision went through a long 
process. Staff can bring that information for review but the two issues are separate 
ones. 

Vice Chair Hackbarth asks the Commission if there is any further discussion.
He requests a Motion to accept the district as designated on the map Exhibit A.

Commissioner Feldman stated that he has forgotten his Roberts rules of order but that 
he would like to make a motion to table it. He explained that the thinks it is a good first 
step but it is missing quite a bit. He thinks it is just a shell. He asks where are the 
Design guidelines that follow it. Creating a Historic Heritage District is a good thing to 
do, beyond that, he thinks the City needs to take other steps to make sure that the 
people that do want to build or remodel in this area have some guidance for how they 
should be building. He stated that the idea is good but he doesn’t want to approve this 
as it is now. He stated that he thinks it is missing a lot. 

Ms. Flores responded saying that this resolution is a response to a Council Directive 
and as such, that’s the reason that it hasn’t been brought before the Commission for the 
purpose of voting and making a recommendation. It has been brought before the 
Commission as information. Staff wants to keep the Commission informed of what’s 
going on. Staff is pleased to have reached this point because it represents some direct 
and tangible support from Council for re-energizing the Historic efforts in the downtown 
and this is a first step. It’s not, by any means, the end and many activities will follow. As 
explained by Mr. Daines, there are several projects underway, the Central Peoria 
Revitalization plan is being updated and will provide more tangible guidance, better 
defined standards and guidelines. The first plan provided a broad brush framework for 
many projects that have actually occurred downtown, such as the streetscape projects, 
and the theater project. In communities, things progress in incremental ways, she said. 
This is a pivotal point because it does represent tangible and direct support from 
Council. 

Mr. Daines responded to stating that staff is working on defining those draft guidelines 
for Old town. Staff is also finalizing the program details. There is time to bring those 
back to the Commission before they go to council. The Council Date is undetermined 
right now but may be in October. Staff intends to bring the program through the 
commission as well as the guidelines because this commission is an important advisory 
Commission to Council so the Commission can look at it and make a recommendation 
to Council on the program details and on the guidelines for revitalizing the facades. This 
is the intent of staff. All of this would then go back to Council in a single study session. 
This gets the resolution piece out of the way. Staff’s goal is to get that program up and 
running. In reference to the education and the signage portions, more time would need 
to be spent on those because of the need for committees to define what the signage 
should look like, and bring that back to this Commission. So, as Ms. Flores stated, this 
is an incremental process and staff will be bringing things back to the Commission for 
review.     

Commissioner Feldman asked staff if he’s clear in his understanding that the 
Commission doesn’t need to vote on this. Is the Commission just being told about this? 

Mr. Daines responded that this meeting is for information and input. 

Commissioner Feldman asked again, if no action was needed from the Commission. 

Mr. Daines responded that staff did not set the resolution for action at this meeting.

Mr. Van Nimwegen added that staff would still like to hear the Commission’s comments 
and those comments will be entered into the record.

Commissioner Feldman said that he doesn’t like it and that’s his comment. He reiterated 
that it’s a good first step. He comments on the program from 1999 are that a lot of steps 
in that program aren’t fully implemented. He would like to see this fully implemented. 
The City has a Historic area that needs to be preserved. The Commissioner stated that 
he is new here and coming from a very historic town, much more Historic that Peoria. 
He thinks it’s vital that the City do that.  Where he grew up there were steps, there were 
design guidelines that were put in place, there was money that was set aside to 
encourage those people to maintain their houses, to build in that historic fashion. If 
there was a teardown, they were encouraged to build historically, based on the 
guidelines and there were funds there to help them do that. He continued stating that he 
just doesn’t see that here. It kind of misses the mark.

Ms Flores responded that when a community puts into operation certain guidelines 
through an ordinance, where people are required to build a certain way when they are in 
a Historic District, it’s because the City has adopted an ordinance to do that. This comes 
back to Proposition 207 where the City of Peoria is not in a position to do that because it 
would require 100% buy in from the residents who would be in that district to be able to 
do that. Staff has their hands tied. The Resolution that is proposed is like the next best 
step.  It is hoped that this will encourage property owners to take pride in the historic 
nature of the community. This can provide a foundation for a time when the City may be 
able to do things through an ordinance and require that things within a certain district be 
constructed or remodeled a certain way.

Commissioner Nelson commented that staff stated that things are in the development 
stage and things are in the process.

Mr. Daines responded that there is more than just a line of information on the resolution; 
there are actually three pages of guidelines for the façade program with three different 
application forms that have been reviewed by the City’s Attorney’s office. There was a 
meeting just this week about how some of the mechanical details and how things would 
work. There is a staff Planner working of the Design guidelines right now and the goal is 
to bring those guidelines and the program back to the Commission. Staff is weeks away 
from having all that in place. Staff can bring those elements to the Commission in a 
month. 

Commissioner Feldman responded that although he doesn’t own any property in that 
area yet, but when he does, he is concerned with knowing historically how he should 
build in that area. This Heritage District will go away if there is nothing substantial 
backing it up. He understands the problems of the public process but at the same time, 
he asked why do this if down the road the City is not going to continue. What he is 
seeing now is that homes are being renovated but in a current not a historic fashion. 

Mr. Daines commented that this is a really good touchstone as far as saying this is an 
important area of the community and educational guidelines should be developed to 
help people when they’re renovating houses to look at the Historic Character and 
proceed according to that. However, staff is not able to bring all the pieces of this at one 
time without additional time. Mr. Daines stated that he feels it’s important to declare this 
a special area, bring the façade program forward and start working on those other 
elements. Staff feels passionate about this as the Commission does but it does take 
time and some of these pieces have several forums to be explored in. They will come 
before this Commission, and the Design Review Board for recommendations. Staff is 
actively working to bring these pieces together. 

Vice Chair Hackbarth summarized. He sees four things that are going on here. 

1.	The Woman’s Club 
2.	The Resolution
3.	The Design issues 
4.	Is there public input into the designs?
He continued, saying, if the public is able to provide input, is there a way for the 
Commission to be involved? 

Mr. Daines responded that staff’s intent is to bring the designs back to the Commission 
to a public hearing like the one that is occurring tonight so that the public can be 
involved. The Public can also be involved when the designs are reviewed by the Design 
Review Board in that public hearing as well. At those hearings, a PowerPoint 
presentation will be shown and comments will be accepted from the public. These items 
will not just show up on a Council Agenda. If there are revisions that need to be made, 
staff can make them and meet again with the Commissions for additional review. The 
goal is to get the Commission’s advisory input into it and then move it to Council. 

Commissioner Schindler asked how the public is informed of a public hearing.
He had previously asked that the Public information office be involved in some capacity 
to ensure that there is some sort of sophisticated announcement made to inform the 
public of these meetings.

Mr. Daines responded explaining that the Agendas are posted on the website and 
around the community. The Agenda is also posted at the City Hall. Also, if residents 
request to be notified of the meetings, staff can advise them of the meetings. No mass 
mailings over large geographic areas are done unless there is something major going 
on like changing the zoning of someone’s property. These meetings don’t generate a 
large mailing.

Commissioner Schindler stated that something like this wouldn’t require a large mailing. 
Just a small mailing of the area of concerned residents who may be interested in what is 
happening in their area. 

Mr. Daines responded explaining that in 1999 the City notified everyone in the Old town 
Area. When that is done again, there will be that same level of outreach, the same level 
of information to the community and the same opportunity for people to be involved in 
the new plan and what it looks like. 

Ms Montoya Moore asked if the mailings were done in Spanish as well as English.

Mr. Daines responded saying that the mailings are done in Spanish and English 
especially because of the predominant Hispanic Community in the Old town area. 

Ms Montoya Moore asked about the public notification and records of public 
involvement in 1999.
 
Mr. Daines offered to pull the files and have Ms. Montoya Moore meet him at his office 
so he can show her the records of the community outreach and public participation that 
occurred in 1999.

Ms Montoya Moore stated that she didn’t receive any notifications but heard about the 
changes from a friend. 

Vice Chari Hackbarth withdrew his previous request for a motion and proceeded to re-
iterate the 4 points as recommended. 

He asked for any more discussion on the agenda item.
No more comments. 

Commissioner Hackbarth on behalf of the Commission requested staff to bring forward, 
when they are ready, the guidelines and other things associated. He placed that motion 
as a motion to request staff to continue consultation with the Commission.

Commissioner Schindler added to the motion, that this be done in a timely fashion and 
maybe set the next meeting for 30 days. He stated that Commissioner Elsner had 
previously expressed some the need for urgency with regard to these items. He does 
not want things to languish. 

Vice Chair Hackbarth accepted the amendment and requested a formal motion on the 
issue of a 30 day turn around to consult with the Commission on the design plans.

Commissioner Schindler stated that he would make the amended motion. 
Commissioner Nelson seconds the motion. Commissioner Hackbarth asks if there is 
any discussion. 
               
Mr. Daines expressed to the Commission that Staff can be ready in 30 days. Staff will 
schedule a meeting for a month from now and bring back the guidelines and the 
program details. 

The Commission voted unanimously and the motion passes. 

Commissioner Elsner suggested an agenda item for the next meeting. She requests to 
see representatives from the State Historic Preservation office to briefly explain the roll 
of certified local governments and maybe an overview of historic preservation, the 
national register, and in general, what municipalities can do to preserve historic 
buildings in their town. Just so that everyone is all on the same page. 

Vice Chair Hackbarth asked staff if SHIPO could be contacted within 30 days.

Mr. Daines responded that staff will contact them and make every effort to make sure 
they are at the meeting. He also explained that the Design guidelines, the elevations, 
will be a lot to go through. He asked the Commission if they would like to split the 
meetings.

Vice Chair Hackbarth stated that the Commission could do both at one meeting. 

Vice Chair Hackbarth requested comments from the Commission about the resolution. 

Commissioner Nelson responded that the resolution is a good step towards maintaining 
the integrity of the downtown district. 

Vice Chair Hackbarth agreed with Commissioner Nelson. He stated that it’s good that 
the Council is moving forward with the work on this area. He’s glad to see that it’s a 
much more expansive area that the area that was first defined two meetings ago. He 
thinks it is a good start. He does believe that beyond that it sounds like a done deal, and 
the Commission is just there to receive that. He then asked staff if that is correct.

Mr. Daines said it was stated that it was important to bring this to the Commission for 
comments on what’s being forwarded to Council and ultimately it will be forwarded to 
Council for consideration.  Council hasn’t voted on this. This is a staff product that is 
being forwarded to Council. It is being brought to the Commission as it involves the Old 
town area. It is here for the comment of the Commission and to get the Commission’s 
input and advice on it.  

Vice Chair Hackbarth then stated he would make the recommendation that Council 
revisit the idea of the moving of the Woman’s Club, or at least to have more public 
outreach to ask for their advice and act on that type of advice not just the Commission 
advice. That would be the one thing he would mention back to the City Council about 
the resolution. 

Vice Chair Hackbarth requested any other discussions or comments at this time.

Commissioner Schindler commented that he appreciates Mr. Carroll and Ms Montoya 
being at the meeting. He hopes they accept staffs invitation to review what has been 
done since 99. Commissioner Schindler expressed that he has a housekeeping issue 
he wants to bring up. He thinks this forum is a lousy one. There are 12 people present 
today, it’s the largest civic involvement the commission has had and the meeting is 
being held in this ugly big forum with buttons being pushed for people to be heard and 
there are other offices in the complex like the Pine room where the Commission can be 
sitting facing Staff and the public 6 feet away in a more intimate and collegial forum. He 
believes if the board meets in another room they can be a much more effective board. 

Mr. Daines responded that the Commissioners suggestion can be explored with the 
facilities department if the Commission is more comfortable in another room. The 
Council Chambers was chosen as a forum because it is already set up and ready for 
the meetings. Other meeting rooms would need to have mic’s set up for the purposes of 
recording the minutes.

Commissioner Schindler expressed a desire to approach Mayor Barrett to request to 
use his conference room for the meetings if the Pine Room is too busy.     

Commissioner Schindler also stated that the primary function of Staff and the 
Commission is to communicate effectively with the public and he doesn’t think that is 
being done effectively in this forum.

 Vice Chair Hackbarth asked if there are any further issues. 

Ms Montoya Moore steps forward. 

Ms Montoya Moore expressed concern about a historic wall that is old and may be a 
hazard to the safety of anyone who goes near it.

Commissioner Elsner said that she knows the wall Ms. Montoya Moore is referencing.

Mr. Daines explained that while he is not sure of the exact location or wall that Ms 
Montoya Moore is referencing, he is willing to meet with her to examine the wall and 
determine if it is a hazard. He will then take the necessary steps to make sure that any 
hazardous situation is abated.

Vice Chair Hackbarth asked if there are any further questions or comments from the 
floor or the Commission. 

No comments or questions. 

REPORT FROM STAFF


ADJOURNMENT

Motion by Commissioner Nelson, second by Commissioner Elsner to adjourn. Vice 
Chair Hackbarth declared meeting adjourned at 7:19 p.m.









Mark Hackbarth, Vice Chair



Harold McKisson, Acting Secretary